Bernie Ecclestone is absolutely the most important person in Formula 1 history and the man that must be given the credits for its success. Since the end of the 70’s, it was him who was have been choosing the development paths for this sport, what evolved from the regional-class racing to the global, multi-billion dollar business. Throughout his whole life, he has had both feet on the ground, run the business in a very straightforward way and not allowed anybody to gain control over anything. He was never afraid to take responsibility for Formula 1, in which he considered as a self-made dictator, with a „divide and conquer” policy style. Although he has always been honest and acted according to his conscience, there have been many people who wanted to bring him down from the top. Using his flair as well as the skills he is still on top and resigning from the CEO position was made possible only after the change in the commercial rights structure. In the week after the Spanish Grand Prix, it was Wojtek Paprota who had the honor to meet Bernie Ecclestone in his London’s office at Princess Gate.
Bernie, how are you first of all?
Fine, always fine.
How did you enjoy the Spanish Grand Prix?
We have been waiting for Ferrari to sort of get their act together for a few years and it looks it is just happening now. So it makes the championship much more open. We don't have to expect Lewis to win every race.
In the last interview with my colleague from Polish TV, you said that you are still woking in Formula 1 but on different things. Do you still feel the responsibility of the whole sport?
No, because my position that I have now is the one they give in America to people who have been very successful so you are elevated so high that you don't know what is going on.
Before our meeting, I read your biography once again. The important thing I have spotted that you like playing poker or baccarat. How this gambling help you in running the business?
Life is a little bit of a gamble. So maybe I did some things which look as if they were taken chances, but I was prepared to take them and luckily they turned out OK.
And what about the relationships in the business? Is there a place for friendship?
Friendships… I have been and I am still a very good friend with all the people that I have done business with and they all seem OK. This is why I am gonna go to some races, to meet the people that I have done business with.
Another thing that I spotted is the fact that you are an emotional person, that is also a thing you said in the famous interview with Martin Brundle in Brazil last year. Does it mean that you are driven by the emotions and the decisions you make are not fully rational?
No, I am not emotional for that sort of thing. I am not emotional because the decisions are always based on reality.
In every single interview, you emphasize that bringing the market value to the company is the most important thing and it is required by the shareholders, which is obviously correct as it is the vital thing in every corporate finance course. But does the CEO of the company, any company, should only be focused on adding the market value or there are some other aspects to be taken into considerations?
You need to keep the business running properly, you need to make sure that you are not going to upset people and have a lot of enemies what is doing bad things for the company so you need to do that. And in the end, you need to do the best deals possible for the company and for the other people. Although anytime I make any deals I would tell the people very straightforward and upfront: „if you sign this contract, it is the contract for you to lose money. If you have got reasons that you think it is good for you to sign this contract and have Formula 1 in your country - super, but I don't believe you gonna make any money”.
Speaking about people, what do you think, who is the most important stakeholder in Formula 1?
It is one of those things where everybody… If we lost some promoters, it is not very good, cause there is nowhere to race. If we lost the teams, depending which team you lose, and how many at the time it is not very good either. If we suddenly lost six teams we would need to change the championship and have a different type of car. Commercial rights holders can be replaced because when I was replaced, the company stayed the same so it is the case of who is running the company.
So is it possible to point out one particular stakeholder?
I think the worst thing was if we lost a few promoters, that would be bad. Where would we race?
Bernie, the thing that I have been wondering about during following Formula 1 over the years is the concept of the open-source business. Why Formula 1 can’t be the open-source business? Let me give you an example of Apple. All the people can create an application but in order to be able to provide it to the Apple users and put it in the App store, they need to pay a certain amount of money to the company for the license. Don't you think that it would be beneficial for Formula 1 to have some more events such as lectures with F1 connected people, state-level events, the entertainment events branded by Formula 1 with the other people contributing to the sport?
No, I have been the opposite. Because people would always want to pay more and do a lot better job if they are exclusive. It is the same what I think has happened now - giving people the rights to film and put the things on social media is completely wrong, because eventually, TV broadcasters will say sorry, we are buying rights, exclusive rights to broadcast and now somebody is doing the same sort of thing.
Ok, so charging people for using social media or for organizing any other activities to give Formula 1 some more publicity would be a bad idea in your opinion?
Let me ask you a question: What extra publicity can we get that would improve Formula 1? How can Formula 1 Group benefit from that?
In my opinion, if there was more events commonly available around the world, not only the races, it would draw much more attention. Nowadays I think that the people who follow Formula 1 are mostly the geeks who are really into this sport. Hardly ever I see a person watching F1 occasionally for entertainment, especially in countries like Poland what doesn't have its own driver in the F1 field. When Robert Kubica left the interest has dropped dramatically.
If somebody wants to watch Formula 1, it is pretty easy to do it, you don't have to be the lawyer to know it, you can watch television, you can read magazines or whatever. It doesn't need that sort of publicity. I have been completely opposite with all those things. If I was opening a restaurant today, the first thing that I would want to say is: „I am terribly sorry, we can’t help you, we are completely full, maybe next Thursday there will be a table for you”. People always want what they can’t have. You want to give the people for free something what they can’t have. It lowers completely the level. I ran the company like a Michelin-star restaurant. If you don't mind, you can run a company like a hamburger joint and be like the Kentucky Fried Chicken. And soon you will understand that the sponsors that we have don't want the image like the Kentucky Fried Chicken. I know that those sponsors that we have are happy because we are exclusive. They feel that their product is exclusive. Rolex watches are expensive watches, not cheap watches and they want to be associated with something that is at the top level.
So do you think that Formula 1 doesn't need any marketing?
It markets itself. It does what it does. What would you do if you were the CEO of Formula 1?
I would definitely have a closer look on the other exclusive brands. Ferrari, Rolex, Apple, they all have some sort of commercials and I would try to implement some their techniques into F1.
I spent 3 years talking to Apple.
About what?
About everything. There is a whole list of things that can be done. We can advertise in newspapers, what is going down now, this sort of advertising, we can advertise on the internet, probably we can get involved with a football team, we can advertise on the shirts, what gives a lot of coverage now. There are hundreds of ways we could promote the brand. But it is not the case. I will give you a very good example. When I was running the Brabham team I phoned some people from a company in Scotland and talked to the chairman and said to him: „I can’t understand why you sponsor sailing. The yacht goes out, maybe somebody is around and takes some photographs and then the boat goes back. Not a lot people are interested anyway. Why can’t you be in Formula 1? We have 16 races, you can be on the car, we have hundreds of millions of television viewers. I don't understand why you do this with boats”. And he answered, he was very nice and kind: „I will tell you. I am interested in yacht racing”. You can go to the companies that sponsor golf and you will see that the people who make the decisions in the company are golfers. You can go to people who sponsor cricket, you can bet on your life that these people follow cricket.
Is it the same in Formula 1?
In Formula 1 you have the same sort of thing. I think not as much because apart from football, I don't know the sport that gives that sort of coverage as Formula 1 gives, including the Olympic Games. Look at the number of people that watch the Olympics every 4 years and look at the number of people who watch Formula 1 collectively and you will see that a lot more people are watching Formula 1.
Is Liberty Media going to change this approach and not keep the brand as exclusive as you used to do it?
They are American and they are coming with very American ideas. There is probably two things: work in America because that is on what Americans have grown up. Formula 1, any time we have had a race in a city or town, it has been capacity crowd. Would America sustain maybe sort of 10 races, like we have in Europe, as America is the same size as Europe? Would it be the same thing? I don't know. I don't think so.
I know that in the 80’s you went to Poland. What was the reason for such a trip?
To get a race there, just like in Moscow.
And what was the concept? Was it supposed to be the street race or any race track was supposed to be built there?
I wanted to race in the city, organize a street race.
How do you choose the potential countries to host the Grand Prix?
Sometimes the countries approach me and sometimes I approach them.
How was in Polish case?
Somebody came to me. I thought we were going to do that. It looked very much like it was going to happen and I really wanted it to happen.
Was it going to be beneficial for F1 under the communism regime?
I took Formula 1 to Hungary and I had to deal with the KGB there. In order to make the race there, I needed to negotiate with KGB. I don't have any problem with black people, white people, green people, communists, Muslims. I don't care.
Do you think that nowadays it would be equally beneficial if there was a circuit and an investor who would be able to put some money in the project?
Yes, I think it would be good. I am sure. I can’t say anything about that but maybe the new shareholders would be interested.
On the other hand, would you agree for organizing a race in a tiny country, such as Brunei for example, if it was financially profitable for F1?
No. I spoke to them, a few years ago. It is not big enough country to support all the sponsors and car manufacturers that are going there.
Last year I talked to Herbie Blash and Charlie Whiting who used to work with you in Brabham. Both of whom said that not only you became far calmer but also you brought the professionalism and the work ethic to the whole new level. Do you agree?
Yes, that is what I said, we have run everything in the Michelin-star restaurant style, that is the level we wanted. A lot of other things stayed at the Kentucky Fried Chicken level and many of them are still there. Max Mosley said the other day that if I had done the same thing with sports cars that I did when I started Formula 1, they would have been what Formula 1 is today, not where they are. It is not because I am clever. It is just the approach I took.
Having said that, do you think that you can call yourself a visionary?
We have done awful lot of things that the other people haven't done in order to be successful. It's not that I am a visionary, I don't know, I just take the chances that appear.
Is there anything that you would like to see happening in Formula 1 in not-too-distance future?
First thing is that I hope we gonna have more competition, had Mercedes have supplied engine to Red Bull, same as their engine, we would have had good racing, like 5 years ago, because since then the racing has been lousy. No matter where you would go for a race, Lewis was probably to be on pole and was probably to win a race, or the other driver in the team would win. So that is not good for the racing. I would like to see Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari and some of the other people having a chance of winning. The regulations are the thing that have really put Formula 1 back and not allowed it to go forward. There is too many sporting regulations like „you mustn't do this, you mustn't do that”. More or less the driver before the race should have an instruction: don't race. Because if they do race, they are gonna be in trouble and this is completely wrong.
Does it mean that every time there is one team dominating in Formula 1 you try to do something to change it?
The problem is that I have set up something called The Strategy Group a few years ago when there is 6 votes for the commercial rights holders, 6 votes for the FIA and 6 votes for the teams. So there is a simple majority that votes, but trying to get the bunch of people together is impossible. You suddenly have the commercial rights holders who could agree on everything with the FIA, but they never seemed to be able to do that. FIA seemed to be a little bit on the side of the teams if you want, but if we, the commercial rights holders got together with the teams, the FIA was saying that they are not sure if it is right. I am sorry to say this, but Formula 1 needed dictator, somebody saying: „this is something we gonna do”. When Formula 1 started in the 70’s that’s exactly how it was. I was more or less a dictator. I was saying how we gonna run the things. Everyone agreed. And it worked. Probably if I looked back, I could have made some changes, but it is not important. What we did, worked.
One of the members of the strategy group you mentioned is Force India whose owners are in big trouble now. Roy Subatra, the CEO of Sahara group is in jail and Vijay Mallya has been recently arrested in London. Do you think that such a situation can have any impact on the team?
Let’s stop here for a minute. Vijay is the one that put Force India together. He has been the Formula 1 supporter for 35 years. He put a lot of money into this team and kept it going pretty well. Any problem that he has in India has nothing to do with Formula 1. He is like many many many people borrowed some money in India from an India bank for the airline that he run and it didn't work out well and he never paid the money back to the bank. That is why he is in trouble. Nothing else. Nothing to do with Formula 1. He is not a crook, he is not a bandit, he is like many many many others. He has done a few things a little bit wrong.
Do you have any plan to help him in such a situation?
I don’t know what kind of help he needs. Probably just a few hundred millions or something.
A few days ago I heard a rumor that you are planning to buy Force India. Can you give me any comment on that?
Yes.
Is that your plan?
No. I can give you a comment. It is not true.
Another thing that I would like to talk with you about is Formula E. Do you see it as a competitor for Formula 1?
It would never have been a competitor when we started. Is it a competitor now? No. Could it be in the future? Depending on how it is run. If it is run in a different way, it could be a competitor.
Do you see any advantages that Formula E has now over Formula 1?
They are running in the middle of a town. A little while ago in Hyde Park, there was a cycle race, nothing important, but the park was full. Because didn't have to pay, it was free. People look at everything that is free. They don't have anything to do on Sunday so they come and look.
So the fact that Formula E has lower ticket prices in its advantage?
If the ticket price is high in Formula 1, I don't think that people will go and watch Formula E because it is cheaper. It is something completely different. If Formula E was structured in a different way, maybe it could be a competitor.
So what should they change to become a competitor for F1?
They are left to find out. I am not a teacher.
Do you still have any advisors?
I listen to people. People come up with various ideas and you need to look which of the ideas are good and which you want to follow.
Bernie, it has been an honor to listen to you today!
Thank you!
